Nifty opened above PDC . Traded in a 20 point range the whole day between IRL and PDH. Tried a BOF trade of IRL. Scratched it when price failed to go above PDH. Being weekend expected some nice move near closing. Nothing happened
1.They are tradeable signals. But I do not take such risky ones.Bias was bullish and price hanging below the PDH/All time high.Price has moved just 20 points from day low and cant expect a move exhaustion. Here my preferred trade is buying the Range low in anticipation of Range High breaking. Do not go for all the signals. Quality of setup is also important 2.You can. Earlier the better. More confirmation means more risk. Not yet reached such a level of expertise. http://goo.gl/NSu3Ip
Hi ST, Understand you have taken Trade at the break of MSP. Under what condition do you take the trade at 2:30(BOF). Want to understand thinking process behind a> Taking BOF after MSP b> Taking BOF before MSP
MSP is applicable only on a trend move. Think FTA Every range will have a mid point where price stall. Today 7920 acted as the mid point. On the way down this level supported twice and I expected it to act as a flip. Here you have two options. Enter as close to 7910 as possible or wait for the break of FTA 7920 Here I opted for option no 4 http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/03/trouble-areas_14.html Professional entry is always earlier. http://goo.gl/NSu3Ip
One query. When can we expect the complex pull back? If the price has run up straight without any pull back and once it stalls, can we expect CPB? For example, your yesterday's second trade. What is your observation about it overall? Please share.
We do not need any special treatment for CPB. Complex pullbacks are multi leg pullbacks that appear as tight ranges. We already trade these patterns as BOF of Range Extremes and TRAPS.CPB can be very tricky and most of the time traders are shaken out of good trades due to CPB. Let me explain with a picture
http://screencast.com/t/ULOyCDukatSP
Traders generally try to enter on a BO and sit tight through pull backs trailing their stops . In the picture, Many traders enter on break at B and sit tight. When price completes a PB ,they raise their stop to this new swing low. Price come backs stops them out and surge ahead. Our method is different. We try to enter at point A and once price breaks point B ,we are comfortable. We exit at C if we feel the barrier is strong and momentum is missing . If the move is over extended exit at C. If we feel there is still some scope for another leg up wait for the pull back . Exit it if the second push fails at D. We can always reenter on a TRAP at E. Alternatively if distance between point B and E is very few points, we can risk a little more and hide the stop behind the DP Most of the time all these problem arise when our entry is late. If shorted on BOF of ATH we will be comfortable in managing the trade.
Thank you very much for this nice detailed explanation. As you rightly said CPBs are tricky and they shake us out from the good trade, especially if CPBs happen immediately after the entry and the trade has not moved much in the favor.
The first three bars make IR. I did not mark it as we cannot use that level for initiating trades Later this range got enveloped and lost its relevance. http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/10/brackets-and-envelops.html
Initial range is the first range formed by the market after the open. It is not based on time. Sometimes the first bar can act as a range. Sometimes first4,5 or 6 bars act as a range. http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/07/initial-range.html To qualify as a range this should look like a range and act like a range Today IR formed by the first three bars. I have marked the range low. Range high was not marked as the IR got enveloped and lost its relevance later. IRL continued to hold till the end of the day.Price bounced back four times from the level
Hi ST, Just a thought process can we use floor pivots as the Decision Points .....these levels are commonly visible to all of traders and will respond well
I do not use any calculated levels like fibs and floor pivots.I stick to Markets own levels I have not experimented with pivots so far.If you find floor pivots responding well , no harm in trading them Mark and annotate last 25 trading day charts and please do share your observation
Hi ST I am watching this space for sometime now and this method has improved my trading considerably. thanks for that. I have a query. pdh should hv been 7937.1. as yesterday high was this only. but you marked it around 7931. why this difference?. am I missing something? thanks sandy
I usually ignore tails. That can be just overshoots and freak trades We will never know for sure where the orders are.You can see that yesterday itself the second push turned from 7930 area. Today also price respected the same area multiple times. So I mark the extreme levels ignoring the tails and later make little adjustments if required on subsequent tests
Market is dynamic and will not provide you a static edge SR areas are zones not exact lines. There could be overlaps and overshoots Market is a place where countless people executing countless strategies at the same time. Always there will be ambiguity and uncertainty and we need to operate within
Hi ST, I am amazed at how consistent your teaching is even in posts from 2012, every post of yours adds more clarity, never more confusion, perhaps its because you are crystal clear in your core trading thought process. Thanks a lot for sharing all this valuable info.
hi any one trading with http://www.indiaprocon.com/ in their website brokerage calculator breakeven is around 1.5 points. here are some of discount brokers in india,which i came to know while browsing today. full of confusion which one to go. may be helpfull to any one.
Hi ST ,
ReplyDeleteTwo questions :-
1. Can the two Short trades taken on TST /FTC of PDH around 11.30 AM and 2 PM
2. Can the BOF long trade taken neear range low on forming Pinbar to range low
Regrds
1.They are tradeable signals. But I do not take such risky ones.Bias was bullish and price hanging below the PDH/All time high.Price has moved just 20 points from day low and cant expect a move exhaustion. Here my preferred trade is buying the Range low in anticipation of Range High breaking. Do not go for all the signals. Quality of setup is also important
Delete2.You can. Earlier the better. More confirmation means more risk. Not yet reached such a level of expertise.
http://goo.gl/NSu3Ip
ST
Hi ST,
ReplyDeleteUnderstand you have taken Trade at the break of MSP. Under what condition do you take the trade at 2:30(BOF).
Want to understand thinking process behind
a> Taking BOF after MSP
b> Taking BOF before MSP
MSP is applicable only on a trend move. Think FTA
DeleteEvery range will have a mid point where price stall. Today 7920 acted as the mid point. On the way down this level supported twice and I expected it to act as a flip. Here you have two options. Enter as close to 7910 as possible or wait for the break of FTA 7920
Here I opted for option no 4 http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/03/trouble-areas_14.html
Professional entry is always earlier. http://goo.gl/NSu3Ip
ST
Thanks ST
DeleteThank you ST.
ReplyDeleteST sir
ReplyDeleteOne query. When can we expect the complex pull back?
If the price has run up straight without any pull back and once it stalls, can we expect CPB? For example, your yesterday's second trade.
What is your observation about it overall? Please share.
URD
We do not need any special treatment for CPB. Complex pullbacks are multi leg pullbacks that appear as tight ranges. We already trade these patterns as BOF of Range Extremes and TRAPS.CPB can be very tricky and most of the time traders are shaken out of good trades due to CPB. Let me explain with a picture
Deletehttp://screencast.com/t/ULOyCDukatSP
Traders generally try to enter on a BO and sit tight through pull backs trailing their stops . In the picture, Many traders enter on break at B and sit tight. When price completes a PB ,they raise their stop to this new swing low. Price come backs stops them out and surge ahead.
Our method is different. We try to enter at point A and once price breaks point B ,we are comfortable. We exit at C if we feel the barrier is strong and momentum is missing . If the move is over extended exit at C.
If we feel there is still some scope for another leg up wait for the pull back . Exit it if the second push fails at D. We can always reenter on a TRAP at E. Alternatively if distance between point B and E is very few points, we can risk a little more and hide the stop behind the DP
Most of the time all these problem arise when our entry is late. If shorted on BOF of ATH we will be comfortable in managing the trade.
ST
Thank you ST sir :)
DeleteRegards
Sir
DeleteThank you very much for this nice detailed explanation. As you rightly said CPBs are tricky and they shake us out from the good trade, especially if CPBs happen immediately after the entry and the trade has not moved much in the favor.
URD
Which Charting software & data feed you use ?
ReplyDeleteIcharts.in
DeleteST
why dont you consider 3 bar as IRH
ReplyDeleteThe first three bars make IR. I did not mark it as we cannot use that level for initiating trades
ReplyDeleteLater this range got enveloped and lost its relevance.
http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/10/brackets-and-envelops.html
ST
sir not clear in many case we take the 3rd bar included in IRH and in this particular case we not considering
DeleteInitial range is the first range formed by the market after the open. It is not based on time. Sometimes the first bar can act as a range. Sometimes first4,5 or 6 bars act as a range. http://niftynirvana.blogspot.in/2012/07/initial-range.html
DeleteTo qualify as a range this should look like a range and act like a range
Today IR formed by the first three bars. I have marked the range low. Range high was not marked as the IR got enveloped and lost its relevance later. IRL continued to hold till the end of the day.Price bounced back four times from the level
ST
Hi ST,
ReplyDeleteJust a thought process can we use floor pivots as the Decision Points .....these levels are commonly visible to all of traders and will respond well
Rgrds
I do not use any calculated levels like fibs and floor pivots.I stick to Markets own levels
DeleteI have not experimented with pivots so far.If you find floor pivots responding well , no harm in trading them
Mark and annotate last 25 trading day charts and please do share your observation
ST
Thanks ...will backtest and revert.
DeleteHi ST
ReplyDeleteI am watching this space for sometime now and this method has improved my trading considerably. thanks for that.
I have a query. pdh should hv been 7937.1. as yesterday high was this only. but you marked it around 7931. why this difference?. am I missing something?
thanks
sandy
I usually ignore tails. That can be just overshoots and freak trades
DeleteWe will never know for sure where the orders are.You can see that yesterday itself the second push turned from 7930 area. Today also price respected the same area multiple times. So I mark the extreme levels ignoring the tails and later make little adjustments if required on subsequent tests
ST
ok got it. so this is also dynamic?
DeleteMarket is dynamic and will not provide you a static edge
DeleteSR areas are zones not exact lines. There could be overlaps and overshoots
Market is a place where countless people executing countless strategies at the same time.
Always there will be ambiguity and uncertainty and we need to operate within
ST
so true sir... when we think we have tamed the mkt , we get a tight slap... we have to change with mkt. .....learning new thing everyday.. thanks
Deleteregards
Hi ST,
DeleteI am amazed at how consistent your teaching is even in posts from 2012, every post of yours adds more clarity, never more confusion, perhaps its because you are crystal clear in your core trading thought process. Thanks a lot for sharing all this valuable info.
hi any one trading with http://www.indiaprocon.com/
ReplyDeletein their website brokerage calculator breakeven is around 1.5 points.
here are some of discount brokers in india,which i came to know while browsing today. full of confusion which one to go.
may be helpfull to any one.
1) zerodha
2) indiaprocon
3)composite edge
4) vps share
5)rksv
6)tradesmartonline
7) achievers
8) wisdomcapital
Hi,
DeleteYou can add to the list...
Traderjini
RKGlobal
SASonline
Aliceblue
etc...
There are some interesting discussions going on in TJ forum, some members have published comparison spreadsheets also.
Usually in the breakeven points, stamp duty is excluded. One must pay due consideration to that aspect also.
Regards,
KSG